Two recent blog posts have generated some good discussion and a fair amount of traffic.
Yesterday’s Nationality, Citizenship and The Kingdom, as well as last month’s Jerusalem Post: “Yosef is Alive!!”
This evening, friend and fellow blogger, Dorothy Wilson, forwarded an email from Kol Hator explaining a bit on their position concerning the return and what flack they are taking for stepping forward with a bold declaration that the ten lost tribes are non-Jewish and coming out of Christendom. I am NOT endorsing the website or their position, I am offering this for further discussion and as a clear statement revealing the things we need to be praying for as we see Abba working this restoration from both sides, Jew and Non.
Our Succot Full Page Advert ‘Yosef Lives’ may not have unleashed a storm, but it certainly raised eyebrows. Like with all solid promotion, it is the change of set ideas which make a lasting difference. And this is seldom reported back to source. Feed-back and comments received all point to such a healthy reception. We have also had the advert printed as hand-out brochures and several people assisted in distributing these on the day of the March of the Nations during Succot through the streets of Jerusalem.Of course, there were concerns raised: Why this, why that? Why the NT Book promotion in the advert.?
In general, we are experiencing increasing objection against the KHT Vision. And strangely, the loudest objections are coming from the ranks of the Returnee Ten Tribers themselves, even those who have managed to make it right Home, re-united with Judah into ONE Stick. They hold it against us that we are referring to the Jewish foundations of the NT – even while ogenerally, it is these NT factors that have switched them into ‘Return’ mode. Jews object against it because they simply see”N.T.” which flashes red to them.What they all fail to see is that the NT is the Yosef’s Egyptian gear – which in fact is the main theme of our advertising drive: “Yosef Lives – BUT he is outerly an Egyptian”. This realization does not negate/confirm or disapprove/approve of the NT – it simply explains the hidden Driving Force behind the Reawakening and pending Return. Without recognizing the Egyptian Coat of Yosef, there can be no Reconciliation or Redemption. 10-Israel in Egypt will stumble over the ‘Jewishness’ (‘Torah’-ness e.g. circumcision) of Yosef (which he revealed to his brothers by undressing himself!) and the Jews will stumble over and reject the Egyptian Yosef.It is as easy as this: Recognize and unveil the ‘Hebrew’ within the Egyptian, and you have unveiled the True Captive Retrurnee!This will be the theme of our intended Advertising Campaign which we wish to do in Hebrew on Full Page promotions in the leading Hebrew newspapers in Israel. We will shortly release details of this campaign and how you can take part in it. When Israel can recognize Egyptian Yosef, they wil arrange for his Return. And when Captive 10-Israel realize the true Divine Intent of restoring His 12-Tribed Torah based Covebnant Nation in a Greater Israel, they will stop hedging against such intimate integration with a ‘Jewish’ Yosef.This existing message to 10-Israel within our Succot Advert struck me this morning when working thru that advert once again, preparing the new Hebrew advert. I did not see it as clearly until this morning: The fact that Yosef is a Torah Hebrew (‘Jew’ by today’s parameters) is not real to 10-Israel. Thus, they are as confused by Yosef’s Egyptian image as the the Jews are (none of the 11 brothers recognized him as such until he revealed his circumcision to them!). They identify with him as ‘Yosef’ (some even calling themselves Yosephites – else Ephraimites, after his son who equally was an Egyptian, born and grown up as Egypt royalty). These Ten Tribers and Torah observing Messianics are content to be Yosef the Egyptian according to his Egyptian culture exposure (which they are still part of while exrtricating). But they object against being Yosef the ‘Jewish’ Hebrew (by Torah standards). They, as much as Judah, need to recognize the Egyptian Yosef!This explains why we have opposition from Torah observing Ten Tribers who vehemently reject our position on conversion to Judaism. In line with this discussion then, conversion does not mean accepting ‘Judah Tribal identification’, but simply identifying with the Torah Yosef, laying off the Egyptian Cloak of Yosef.To explain the almost vindictive approach of those 10-Tribers who have Come-Home and now condemn us for assisting the Egyptian Captives, we can only say: they have forgotten where they come from.Then there is another vocal group rising up. They are fed by the current spout of ‘Ger’ theology going out from informed Rabbinic Sources who hedge against sharing their Divine Inheritance with the missing 10 Tribes or with any strangers. Driven by a hands-off motive, the Ger-theory suggests that the best alternative for the masses of re-identifying Torah interests, is to be content with a ‘Stranger’ classification – no immigration rights, no Israel citizenship, no full Torah requirements – simply a passifying association with and recognition by Jews. Judah still remains the sole Tribe – thuis, NO Geulah (Redemption) possible, NO Jubilee re-instatement, NO chance of ever populating the Greater Israel for which hundreds of millions of Israelites are required – not only the 14 million current Jewish population of the world.Sadly, this is a status that appeals to many Ten Tribers who have been called closer to renewed Torah observation by the Spirit of HaShem – as prophesied for the End Times. To them the need is as much to realize who Yosef really is and that he is ALIVE and RETURNING to his Family!The Will of HaShem shall ensue!Blessings!OvadYahThe KOL HATOR Vision for the Restoration of the 12-Tribed Kingdom of Israel
I would echo the position expressed in yesterday’s discussion about Yosef NOT needing to convert to Judaism, not needing to take on the mantle of the oral traditions… But the divide between us and Judah is closing, and quickly. Abba can take care of the details, but we need to pray as well as be very sensitive to Brother Judah while this difference is being worked out.
One of the most exciting lines in the email is this:
…populating the Greater Israel for which hundreds of millions of Israelites are required – not only the 14 million current Jewish population of the world.
Ding, ding, ding!! Been saying this for a while. Israel (the state) will conquer a HUGE swath of land that was given to Abraham and his descendants. When this happens, they will need boots on the ground to hold/occupy it. This will require at LEAST 100,000,000 people. And, there will be vineyards we did not plant, and houses we did not build…. exactly as Scripture portrays.
Who will be invited to occupy and form a northern and eastern buffer zone to Israel? Torah-keepers! THE sign of the covenant is Sabbath…. See Exodus 31:12-17
Folks, this is HEADY stuff! I don’t know exactly how it all plays out, but I can tell you, the end game is ON!! It may take five years, and it may take 50, but bank on it. There is a great awakening going on and people are coming to the Torah by the droves. It is just a matter of time before we get to go home!
- We need to be praying for the State of Israel, that Abba lead her to His plan.
- Pray for Kol Hator and others sharing this same message, that they will be led of the Ruach (Spirit) into Abba’s plan.
- We need to be gathering and learning to walk in unity!
- We need to be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to every available ear!
“Your Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven…”
33 thoughts on “More on the Jerusalem Post ‘Bney Yosef Advert’”
I know Ovadiah personally and was aware of his stance which he has held on to from the first time I met him in South Africa around 2001. Agreed that movement is happening in the right direction! Excellent bullet points that we need to all keep in mind! 🙂
We are seeing the parable of the “The Prodigal Son” playing out before our very eyes. Older brother Judah is not really all that happy to see his younger brother coming back, much less The Father going out and meeting him while he is far off and loving on him. IMO, this parable is also a prophecy. Younger brother has had his fill of the world and lived with and ate with the pigs. There is something not quite right with it and eventually wishes to come and even be the lowest farm hand on the ranch, so long as he can be with Father again.
Truly, these are amazing times to live in and witness. Pete, did you ever think that you could be a part of all this? I am so blessed that Father has given us the eyes to see and witness all these events. Abba is probably laughing at my thoughts and saying, “My dear child, you ain’t seen nothing yet. You won’t believe what happens next!”
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Great summary of the where things stand at the moment. What excites me about all this is that people are actually talking seriously about this question of the Tribes returning. We should not be dismayed that the voices are not in agreement yet. The consensus will come in time, probably starting with grudging acceptance among all parties of the validity of each other’s positions. Not all are right, and some are more right than others, but all have a piece of the answer. The sooner we all start thinking of ourselves as Abraham’s descendants, the better.
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It seems things haven’t really changed much since the first century. Isn’t this push to judaize Ephraim the source of the struggle Paul dealt with so much in his day? While the hope of a return is a wonderful thing, anything short of it being a function of Messiah, at the end of the day, risks becoming a work of the flesh. I’m not against the two sticks coming together at all lest there be some misunderstanding on my position (for what that’s worth). What I am concerned about is the apparent need by Judah for Ephraim to become Judah and this apparent belief that Judah actually keeps Torah in its purity. The record of such would defy the assumption. The honest truth is, we all have error, and I would contend, in copious amounts due to the lack of understanding because of all our traditions and contaminated world view. Don’t both Judah and Ephraim become Israel once joined together. They both come to the fullness of their identity in the hand of Messiah. Without Him in the picture it will be an exercise in futility. His presence will deal with the error on both sides of this. Longing for the day when He personally restores all things. Come quickly!!
Psalm 127Psalms 127:1 If YAHWEH does not build the house, they who build it labor in vain; if YAHWEH does not keep the city, the one keeping it stays awake in vain.
Ezekiel 37:19 Say to them, So says Adonai YAHWEH: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions. And I will put them with him, with the stick of Judah, and I will make them one stick, and they shall be one (echad) in My hand.
20 And the sticks shall be in your hand, the ones on which you write before their eyes.
21 And say to them, So says Adonai YAHWEH: Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations, there where they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and will bring them into their own land.
22 And I will make them one (echad) nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one King shall be for a king to all of them. And they shall not be two nations anymore. And they will not be split into two kingdoms any more.
23 And they will not still be defiled with their idols, even with their filthy idols, nor with all of their transgressions. But I will save them out of all their dwelling places where they have sinned in them, and I will cleanse them. So they shall be for a people to Me and I will be for Elohim to them.
24 And My servant, David, shall be King over them. And there shall be one Shepherd to all of them. And they shall walk in My judgments and keep My statutes, and do them.
Isaiah 11:11 And it shall be in that day, YAHWEH shall again set His hand, the second time, to recover the remnant of His people that remains, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the coasts of the sea.
12 And He shall lift up a banner for the nations, and shall gather the outcasts of Israel, and gather those dispersed from Judah, from the four wings of the earth.
13 And the envy of Ephraim shall turn off; and Judah’s foes shall be cut off. Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not trouble Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly onto the shoulder of the Philistines to the west; together they shall plunder the sons of the east, the stretching of the hand on Edom and Moab and the sons of Ammon; they will obey them.
15 And YAHWEH shall utterly destroy the tongue of the sea of Egypt; and with His scorching wind He shall wave His hand over the River, and shall strike it into seven torrents, and make one tread it with shoes.
16 And there shall be a highway for the remnant of His people, those left from Assyria, as it was to Israel in the day when he came up out of the land of Egypt.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear The Elohim, and keep His commandments; for this applies to every man.
14 For The Elohim shall bring every work into judgment, with all that is hidden, whether it is good, or whether it is evil.
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We’ve had this discussion before… I reiterate, prophecies most always have a definite human element in their fulfillment. When Abba leads, it us incumbent to act and let Him sort the details. It’s called ‘faith.’
A clear marker as to His present involvement is not only the thawing on both sides simultaneously, but also that an increasing number on both sides are finding the missing piece the other has. Yes, I could be critical, or I can be amazed.
Much yet has to happen, but seeing eyes recognize the times. Let us work like it depends on us and pray like it depends on Him…. He can work out the details as my commentary clearly stated.
Brother, there’s a big difference between looking at something critically in the pursuit of truth and simply being critical. Believe me, I so want the restoration of all things to happen and I agree mankind is included in prophecy. The prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel clearly have the marker of Messiahs personal, physical involvement. While these movements towards fellowship are good, they appear to be predicated on the assumption Ephraim will fold into Judah. I sincerely hope I’m wrong. With the rare exception of a few, all those of rabbinic Judaism I’ve encountered see us as the red headed stepchild that should go on and be good little Gers and keep the Noahide laws. I’ve actually had them tell me that. When I see Judah display the same repentance from dead works we’ve all been experiencing then I’ll know we’re getting near to bring joined together. I’m sincerely looking for that day and will continue in hope, faith believing and as much as possible live at peace with all men.
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We can be critically amazed as well. All questions should be on the table fairly.
I am thankful for our family … those from Judah … who are recognizing us as family. Halleluyah! I believe that the proverbial train has left the station. The regathering … the restoration of all things is in the works. I just wanted to make sure that none of us got off on the wrong stop along the way! Do I have it all figured out? Heavens no! But I also realize that our welcoming hosts from Judah don’t have it all figured out either. Hence, my comment about not being envious of what Judah has. If it is extra traditions that steer us away from YHWH and Yeshua, then we don’t need it. If it is a better understanding of how we are all to walk in the Torah, then let us walk together. By the way, there is some beautiful land in the middle part of the country, just over the modern day border near the Jordan/Syria line … even going north up on the Golan. Wouldn’t mind a spot there, but I have a daughter who wants to live in the Negev. She wants to open a coffee shop and plant flowers. She knows that the desert shall bloom … she just wants to get a head start on it!!! I also thought about opening a fishing supply/bait and tackle shop at the Dead Sea. It may not sell a lot yet, but would be a great teaching place about how there will be living waters there.
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Your Web Page and the comments on our Jerusalem Post Full Page Succot advert was forwarded to us. It is gladdening to see your readers share our excitement about thef ast changing developments in this Jubilee year – probably the Year of Release of 10-Israel.
Allow me to comment on a remark that was made in these reviews. It was said:
‘I would echo the position expressed in yesterday’s discussion about Yosef NOT needing to convert to Judaism, not needing to take on the mantle of the oral traditions… , but we need to pray as well as be very sensitive to Brother Judah while this difference is being worked out.”
Let me try and further this “working out of the difference “… between Judah and Ephraim.
Yosef does not need to convert to Judaism? – or take on the Oral Traditions? We like to believe that the very purpose of this Metaphor which depicts Yosef as the Peace Maker between the brothers, is to present him as the circumcized Hebrew – according to Rabbinic interpretation of Yosef asking his attendants to leave the meeting, whereafter he reveals his circumcision to his brothers, which broke the stand-off between Yosef the Egyptian and the Hebrew brothers. It was his Torah compliance which made them recognize him and reconcile. The Reconciliation was thus based on Torah compliance, Hebrew style – which means Rabbinic style, which means Oral Torah style. Yosef did not need to convert to Judaism, as Torah observant Hebrew he was in fact complying as a Jew. The Ten Triber on the other hand has to come to Torah observance – of which circumcision is the ‘Jewish signpost’, thus also representing the Oral Tradition – which is merely an in-depth interpretation of the Torah. This Torah compliance was the reconciliatory factor – as it should be for the re-identifying ten Triber. The main Cause of the exile of 10-Israel was their rejection of this Judah Torah guidance – Judah being the mandated Mechoqeck (Lawmaker, justicial faculty) of God. (ref. http://www.kolhator.org.il/Mechoqeck.php ). The rejection of a ‘Jewish’ Yosef target today is simply an extension of the ancient rebellion of 10-Israel against the appointed Judah Lawgiver. If 10-Israel wants to ‘Return to the Bridegroom’, then it can ONLY be on terms of returning to the Bridegroom’s Torah Culture and Household. ONLY Judah offers this ‘facility’ – 10-Israel lost it. This is the reason why 10-Israel should fully Re-identify with God’s Torah Culture by identifying with the Torah Guardian – Judah (Gen. 49:10; Rom. 3:2 – NOT to take on Judah Tribal Identity butJudah’s Torah culture.
THIS is the main stumblingblock in the way of Reconciliation on the 10-Israel side.
On the Judah side, it is refusal to accept Yosef back because of his Egyptian culture. We are working hard at this one also and need YOUR support.
KOL HATOR Vision for the Restoration of 12-Tribed Israel
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OvadYah, my dear brother, welcome!
Shalom and thank you so much for being willing to dialog, and an even bigger ‘thank you!!’ for taking a very public stand on behalf of 10-Israel in the nations who are beginning to understand who we are.
Traditions are not bad things, and we do not reject tradition simply for the sake of rejecting something… Speaking for myself (and I think most who are coming out of the church and into Torah awareness or pursuance) I am very leery of anything that is not a ‘thus sayeth Hashem.’ I was a Christian pastor, the equivalent of a rabbi. I learned well the traditions of my fathers and had all the Scripture quotes to back them up as well as was able to name many of the great thinkers that justified them. Many things I taught and did had only limited basis in Scripture, but we did it because our fathers for 1000-1500 years had done it that way. Now, I know those men studied and desired to be obedient, but in their own wisdom they taught things that became Christendom’s ‘oral Torah.’
As Hashem began to open my eyes to the simplicity of His Word, the written Torah, I began to shed the many things I had been taught by men that complicated or often twisted the commands as given to Moshe. Today, like most ‘Hebrew roots’ believers, I study and try to be obedient to the Torah of Moses as best I can. I do read some of the sages and the commentary in the Chumash, but because I was ‘burned’ by my own well meaning fathers who introduced many additional teachings to Scripture, I am very careful to NOT elevate anything outside of the Tanak and NT to a level of ‘thus sayeth Hashem.’
[My father of blessed memory used to say, ‘Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.’]
Most all 10-Israel believers that I know who are learning Torah read and consider the sages, but because we have been burned once by well meaning men who loved Hashem, we will not allow ourselves to again be put in that position. We look with great anticipation for the day when the ‘one like unto Moshe,’ the Mashiach, comes to teach the fullness of Hashem’s Word. Until then we desire to stand on the very firm foundation of the written Word.
We bless and thank Judah for your faithfulness in transmitting the text, and your steadfastness in being obedient to the Covenant while we were squandering our heritage in the nations. We ask that you be patient with us and understanding of our reticence to trade the teachings of one group of men for that of another. We trust that this work of Abba among both Jews and non-Jewish 10-Israel will result in Him, by His ruach leading us into an echad unity that isn’t uniformity, but true unity of fellowship that allows us all, you and us to walk in Torah as our Father leads. May He be glorified in us as we display His faithfulness to the world.
I bless you and thank you again for your willingness to step out on our behalf. I look forward to dialog and hope to meet you when I next come haeretz.
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Yup. I agree Pete.
hlleluYah! Pete I agree !
I join Pete in welcoming your voice in this dialogue, and I express great thanks to you and your compatriots in placing these ads in the Jerusalem Post. The encouragement you have given us is almost beyond description. I know I speak for others in saying that we hope to participate in this process as opportunity arises.
The “process” to which I refer is more than the public information campaign upon which Kol Hator has embarked. It is the larger process of getting to know one another as long-estranged brothers with radically different histories and worldviews. Three thousand years of enmity cannot be erased in a fortnight; we cannot expect to overcome it without difficulty, setbacks, and unintended offense. If Isaiah 11:13 is any indication, the jealousy of Ephraim and the vexation of Judah shall not depart entirely until Messiah completes the work of reunification. Nevertheless, I hope and pray that we are mature enough and confident enough in HaShem and His promises that we will persevere with one another through the difficulties ahead. In this regard the adage of Sir Winston Churchill is appropriate: “There is at least one thing worse than fighting with allies – and that is to fight without them.” If we are to believe HaShem and His prophets, then we are more than allies; we are fellow countrymen and brothers.
Thank you for stating what I interpret to be a firm position among many of our brethren of Judah. This is an excellent starting point for our discussions. Pete’s response has established the position from our point of view. We respect the teachings, traditions, and practices of Judaism which have developed from the Oral Torah, but we are not prepared to submit ourselves to them without first testing each to Scripture. Pete has explained our reasoning quite well. I would add to his comments by stating our firm position as returning Ephraimites.
First, we ask that you understand why we regard ourselves as part of the nation of Israel. It is not physical descent, although that may come to be an important part of this equation in time. The reason we can claim this identity is covenantal, thanks to the atoning work of Yeshua of Nazareth. He is our Messiah, and without him we would have no basis for returning home. We do not expect our Jewish brethren to agree with us about Yeshua’s messianic claims, and we certainly have no intention of repeating the errors of our Christian ancestors by insisting on Jewish conversion. HaShem will reveal in time the full truth of this matter, but for now we ask that you respect our position. We cannot leave Yeshua, even if that means we must remain in exile among the nations.
Second, we ask that you understand our reverence for the Apostolic Writings, known more commonly as the New Testament. We regard these writings as scripture, of the same level of Divine authorship as every book of the Tanakh. We do not expect our Jewish brethren to revere these writings in the same way, but we humbly submit that you cannot understand our motivation and way of thinking unless you have some familiarity with them. Just as we are now discovering the value of what the Jewish sages have written, we ask that you examine what the apostles have written and see the value therein.
Third, we ask that you understand how we have come to Torah. The truth is, as Christians we practiced the heart of the Torah all our lives, albeit in ignorance. It is only in recent years that we have come to recognize the errors of church tradition in rejecting the covenantal sign of Shabbat, the Moedim of HaShem, the dietary commandments, circumcision, and many other points. What clouded our understanding for nearly twenty centuries was the mistaken belief that Yeshua and the apostles stood firm against the Law of Moses. We were taught that Jesus Christ had fulfilled the Law, and therefore it no longer applied to his disciples. What we now know is that Messiah Yeshua affirmed Moses in every way, teaching Torah correctly by word and deed. What he and the apostles stood against were the traditions of the elders which counteracted the commandments of HaShem. In a word – and please do not take offense at my frank statement – it was the traditions of the Oral Torah which Yeshua and the apostles called into question.
I hope by this you can understand the reason we resist your insistence that our return to the nation requires our submission to Torah compliance as defined by rabbinic authority. We see this as the same message which caused confusion among our ancestors in Galatia, resulting in Paul’s impassioned letter to them. We are beginning to see that the message of the apostles was one of regathering Yosef/Ephraim into the nation of Israel through the means provided by Yeshua’s death and resurrection. If that is true, then it appears some of our Galatian forebears were so eager to return that they chose to convert to the Second Temple predecessor of rabbinic Judaism so that they might be accepted. They became Jews, and thus forsook not only their identity as Ephraimites of the House of Yosef, but also as followers of Yeshua.
What you have said equates to the same message, and we must respectfully remonstrate and resist. We know by faith in the eternal promises of HaShem that we are Israelites, and thus we await His work in effecting our return on His terms, not on any man’s terms – including our own. We will continue to support the State of Israel and our Jewish brethren in love and in expectation that one day we can be part of the same nation. For now, however, we know we cannot return to the Land unless we become Jews, and that we cannot do.
I have written these lines prayerfully and fearfully. My hope is that they will not be a cause of division, but rather the beginning of a meaningful exchange regarding these very difficult, but essential, matters. There is much on which we agree, not the least being the eternal faithfulness of the God of our mutual fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I look forward eagerly to your response, and to the day we can discuss these things face-to-face.
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I’m not sure how you could have done a better job … explaining things from a scriptural and practical perspective. Well done, my brother! You ought to try your hand at writing a book some day :-))))))))))) That’s my beard!
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Thanks for your honest analysis bro. A; McCarn and the other respondents in this forum. This is surely a unique group that we have gathered here offering open welcome arms to each other and pursuing truly what each believes to be the Way. If all contender in this End scenaario could so maturely converse and share with each other, then we have really reached the perimeters of Home – all we need to do is enter.
It is for this reason that I address this response to you all. Unfortunately I was not aware of the ongoing conversation here and it was per chance that I once again, via a Google Search for ‘Yosef is Alive’, came across this ongoing dialogue of such high spiritual value. I owe you a response and this is it:
I will not attempt to overcome the remaining barriers in our discourse. This will NOT be possible for I do not possess what it needs to remove the remaining obstacles between us. So, let us attempt it in another way. Let us apply the golden remedy that keeps Judah stuck together: let us agree to disgree on our points of differing and let us unite on that which we do agree upon. That is, the strategy that KolHator has embarked on in an attempt to get the two House to unite. Those in this discussion all expressed their uppermost approval and applauded our Jerusalem Post Advert endeavour to proclaim that ‘Yoseph is Alive.” That is a Message that Judah certainly needs to hear and consider in order to start opening the gates for the Return. Without such Return there can be NO getting together, No Israel, no Temple in Jerusalem, NO Yovel (Jubilee) NO Kingdom of God established. Certainly, He can do it all Himself, but Scripture bears overwhelming evidence that this is NOT how He oeprates. He depends on US to leave Egypt, to walk into the Red Sea before He will open it, to enter the Land by conquering the enemy which He does not simply remove – and on and on. Yes, there is an Onus on US to DO – and then He blesses.
Our mandate at this time (and that includes all of us and those on the parameters around us), is to RETURN to our Heritage. The Main Theme of Scripture (which I trust we can agree on) is the establishing of His Kingdom – which will be a reconiled, re-united Kingdom AFTER we have made Peace with each other. We have to promote this getting together acrooss the Removal of age old obstacles and Division.. If we wait till we all agree theologically with each other, this will NEVER happen! We need to achieve it while we differ from each other – but unite sufficiently enough on the main stays of our communal Goal – the Kingdom.
There are two main areas that need reconciliation:
1. The different fractions of 10-Israel itself which is so explosively divided amongst itself, NOT really knowing its true Identity and where it is really headed, and
2. The 2 Houses of 10-Israel and Judah.
It has recently become clear to our understanding that, in line with the Biblical metaphor of the Return of Yoseph, Judah will NOT initiate the return of Yoseph. Judah needs to be prompted into this and this is the responsibility of Yoseph, the provider and the Ingatherer, the Peacemaker. The onus for this therefore rest on YOU from 10-Israel, that is Yoseph, to initiate this Drive.
Working from inside the heart of Judah in Israel, we, the leadership of Kol Hator (KHT) constantly observe how 10-Israel messes up this reconciliation by the wrong approaches to Judah. In doing so, they in fact, ignorantly and inadvertently worsen the Division between the two. KHT has the means to assist you to subvert the obstacles of wrong approach. Bearing your burden on our hearts and striving for the Peaceful reconciliation, KHT can assist you to go about it in an acceptable (to Judah) way. Just as Yoseph had to scheme various ways of getting his brothers to recognize him and his motive of reconciliation. It did not just happen.
So, while we will never in the short term come to full agreement one way or the other, we all do expose the mature spiritual attitude in this discussion to respect and acknowledge each other. KHT therefore has embarked on an ingenious project to involve the co-operation of 10-Israel on the widest possible platform to co-operate in the endeavour to bring awareness to Judah that ‘Yoseph is Alive’ and wishes to Return Home. We will NOT present terms or conditions of such return on either side. We will leave that part for spiritual maturity to grow on each side and for God to finalize.
We can NOT do this on our own. Conditions (providentially) are such that we NEED your assistance – and you need ours! We have devised a unique project to protect the interest of all while not giving free reigns for any participant’s individual agendas to prosper. we will be striving at ONE Agenda solely: and that is the Interest and the Kingdom of the God of Israel. The final unraveling we shall leave to Him, after we have set the Process in motion. He will finally decide on who’s terms the entire matter becomes resolved.
We need communal financial support (which will be handled independently of any one direct interest) by an auditing company. These funds will be used solely to flood the Hebrew Media with evidence and convincing proof (formulated in the only way that they can accept such) that Yoseph is Alive and that there rests a Torah obligation on Judah to assist and accept this.
If you are prepared to support such a Project, then please express it while we are finalizing detailed processing for the Project.
In this way Yoseph can really identify truthfully if he bears tthe communal interest of God’s Kingdom or rather personal strivings and agendas.
Looking forward to your positive response and suggestions of how tobroaden the audience field for this Appeal.
Shalom and welcome brother. So glad to have you return and see our discussion. Truly, there is much that we agree on and 2700 years of breach will not be repaired in a day. By G-d’s grace, we may be blessed to see it in our day, but that is up to Him as we seek His face and reach out to each other.
From our perspective, much is happening with the regathering of Ephraim on many fronts, the Bney Yosef Congress being just one. We do feel that the time will soon come for direct dialogue with Judah, but right now we are very focused on getting our own house in order…
Shalom and blessings. I thank you for your interaction on this blog and hope you will not be a stranger. In the future, I hope to meet you face to face and embrace you as a brother and fellow journeyman in this effort to restore the Whole House of Israel. May YHVH bless and guide us!
halleuYah! I agree with you Al 100%.
More on the Jerusalem Post ‘Bney Yosef Advert’
The Yosef Advert seems to carry ongoing interest as these 2 latest responses posted by Pete proves. Amazing that it comes exactly one year after the original publishing at the time of and for the International Sukkot March in Jerusalem which Pete this year attended and reports simultaneously with these renewed comments about the Advert.
I was confused at first as these latest comments quote an invite for me to participate in the discussions (on behalf of Judah and Kol Hator (KHT).So reviewing the discussions regarding this advert on Pete’s Site, I thought it may be well to update you with latest developments in this regard.
Firstly, in this connection, Pete includes in his report on the March 2 days ago, a video by Ari Abramowitz (included in https://natsab.com/2016/10/20/what-an-amazing-day ) in which Ari addresses positively the fears of Judah in regard to the prophesied reconciliation which we all pursue. Its worth mentioning that Ari and his publishing partner themselves still have the same ‘Judah’ problems to recognize and admit KHT’s pro-Yoseph stand. But please see this video and Pete’s great report.
It is this opposing spirit of Judah that this Yosef Advert and we at KHT (the initiators of this Advert) are addressing on your behalf and for your benefit and acceptance by Judah. Ari’s positive stand is most surely proof of the changing atmosphere here in Israel in this regard – and we do NOT claim sole success rights, not at all! All things work together, but this Advert and the Message that it conveys surely are lighting sparks of small fires starting in Jewish thinking. We experience this all over in our daily going about.
In this year since its publication the Advert has been translated into Russian and Georgian and our associate partners are strongly promoting this Message world-wide amongst Jewry.
It has also ignited active interest (reported on also in this discussion on Pete’s Site) which led to the launching of Commonwealth of Yisrael Reconciliation projects (COY). COY in the short span of just 6 months has launched successfully a reconciliation Conference in Jerusalem, attended by 100 delegates from every corner of the earth at the time of Shavuot – June 2016. The salient achievement of this Conference was that for the first time in modern history, after 2700 years of Division, representatives of Judah (including 2 Rabbis) and Yosephites/Ephraimites handed each other the proverbial Olive branch by physically interchanging Two Sticks of Ezek. 37.
Resulting developments caused COY to disband, but, it has been replaced by a ‘new’ COI organization, representative in its leadership of BOTH Houses, including Rabbinic representation.
COI has set itself the target to promote Reconciliation between the two divided factions of God’s Family. As such, it will use the festive Season of Shavuot (Pentecost) for its Conventions. A Convention to follow on the 1st successful Reconciliation Conference of Shavuot 2016 is being arranged for May 2017. Shavuot signifies the Giving of the Torah, covenanting with God, the Marriage ceremony between the God of Israel and His Bride – 12-Israel. For the re-awakening House of Israel it signifies RE-COVENANTING. Sukkot implies celebration – the Wedding festivity. There can not be Celebration without Reconciliation – and many who figure that they have as secure Invitation to the Marriage festival may well discover that their Attendance documents for the Royal Marriage are incomplete. Hence, the re-covenanting preparations through COI’s Shavuot Conventions. Details of this event is obtainable here.
Allow me to comment on some of the remarks regarding this Advert that your readers have posted, the most prominent of these being by ‘Barking Fox’ who wrote: “I join Pete in welcoming your voice (OvadYah) in this dialogue, and I express great thanks to you and your compatriots in placing these ads in the Jerusalem Post. The encouragement you have given us is almost beyond description. I know I speak for others in saying that we hope to participate in this process as opportunity arises.”
‘Encouragement’ is not enough dear Brethren and Sisters. Encouragement should inspire Action – and Action only, leads to results – positive (even if controversial) for BOTH sides! The new COI Vision speaks on behalf of BOTH sides and presents a mature Dialoguing platform. But dialogue alone also is not sufficient. Again, it requires Action.
Can we not reach a time where we put dialogue, talking, scheming and arguing BEHIND us, take arms and move FORWARD? If you truly appreciate the Vision of this Advert, why then not assist in promoting it? We have the means to do it: We are in the Land, we operate from amongst Judah, we know the heart and mind of Judah. We lack the funds to place those adverts in the papers in Hebrew. Someone had to pay for that Advert that so inspires and encourages you. Does the Law of reciprocity not now demand that you share in promoting it for the inspiration of others – AND FOR CHANGING THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THOSE WHO CAN OPEN THE GATES FOR YOU TO COME HOME? Sure, God can do it. But He did NOT do the walking, the sweating, the warring on the Way from Egypt to the Land. Neither did He at any other time in the history – YOUR history – of the Nation of Israel.
The old saying remains true: “Talk is cheap”
We look forward to ACTION now. A war can not be fought without soldiers and equipment. This is the most serious War of All!
Co-founder COI Reconciliation Projects
Co-founder Kol Hator Vision for the Restoration of 12-Tribed Israel
HalleluYah! Al I agree 100%. ( I see the same comment of me was posted under Pete’s answer , but there I chose to say : halleluYah! Pete I agree. I don’t know how that could get mixed up) To make the confusion complete, may you both and all here understand that I am glad for your faithful obedient answers and I agree 100% with your answers, so I do not need to add more without this: For my part I am very careful with anything coming my way what only smells for blasphemy to take an well meant outreached hand under the circumstance to discover then that I discovered to be anti Messiah. This is very tricky and nothing like this I tolerate to come over my way . I stand for what i believe and there is nothing to negotiate over about it.Therefore yes Pete & All, I really applaud your answers entirely & wholeheartedly . I wouldn’t be so much able to answer it better. Thank you!
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Spirit, facts tone and especially appreciation…I agree with Pete also!
Many thanks and blessings to OvadYah … even if we don’t necessarily understand and/or agree with everything he is saying at this point. How long have “we” been divided? 2700 years or so? I can only imagine that it is going to take a little time and effort to regather everyone. And who is to say that we will all agree with each other on every point as we are being regathered? I don’t know too many of “us” form the nations, who agree on all things. I see how many different sects there are in Judaism. The Father will work these things out, if we allow Him to … if we are yielding to His will and ways. Shalom to your hearts and home, Tom
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Reblogged this on The Barking Fox and commented:
My friend and colleague Pete Rambo has posted some significant pieces recently regarding the restoration of the entire nation of Israel – both the Jewish and the non-Jewish parts. In this post Pete gives us an excellent commentary on the initiative of our Jewish brethren at Kol Hator to reach out to returning Israelites and educate the Israeli public about this long-expected prophetic event. He also provides some practical points for prayer and action, as well as a point of departure for a stimulating discussion thread. Be sure to read the comments! Also check out Pete’s contemplation on “Nationality, Citizenship and The Kingdom” at http://natsab.com/2015/10/24/nationality-citizenship-and-the-kingdom/.
The Oslow accords will buity the same way, lets dialogue and figure out a few things on the way; they left the main thing at the end, Jerusalem; in this case the identity of the Messiah. What would Yeshua The Messiah think about not being the main thing and put off for discussion till the end? Perhaps this conference idea comes to you as a test, who is your first love? To whom do you give your absolute loyalty to the the King of Kings, or House of Judah? The Torah says if someone comes to you, and present another god to you, which is not god, they have the obligation to kill you. Just asking the hard questions not for an answer but for consideration.
I believe some years back Batya Wooten tried this same sort of thing – what happened to her efforts? and why? Also, is this the first effort of Ephraim and Ramona, I’d be interested in hearing from them what makes now a better time than in the past?
My apologies that this comment slipped past me… In reading the recent addition to this thread by OvadYah, I noticed your question had gone unanswered.
Batyah and Angus Wooten did begin taking steps in this direction a number of years ago, but the maturity and size of the fledgling Messianic movement proved that it was not ready for their efforts. They continued to pray for the vision while setting it on a back burner and waiting for the Father to open the door. Ephraim and Rimona saw and understood the vision and, like many of us now, began to see the presence of ‘Ephraim’ and the prophesied return on nearly every page of Scripture.
Last year they began to sense the leading of the spirit to take defined measured steps toward the fulfillment of these prophecies and as they did they suddenly found many others to whom Abba was showing the same things. It was that group who gathered in Ariel Israel last May. Among those who gathered was David Altman the leader of ARI, Alliance of Redeemed Israel, the ministry of the now senior Angus and Batya Wooten… So, in essence, in many respects, this isn’t a new thing but continued steps from the original vision of Angus and Batya.
Their vision is currently being carried forward…. Watch for news on this blog and others in the very near future.
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To pick up on the Wootens, I may be able to add just a bit of insight. We met Angus and Batya back in the early 1990’s, when they stilled lived in Virginia. They would sometimes attend our home group, and we would attend meetings near their home, about an hour and a half away. They were responsible for teaching us what the Father was already doing in our hearts. We felt connected to “Jewish things” … to Israel … we attended a Messianic Jewish congregation for a few years. They explained, from the Scriptures, what this re-gathering was all about.
As time went on, Angus shared from some of his experience as a military officer, doing work with the Israeli military. If I remember correctly, he went on a fact finding mission to Ethiopia, many years before Operation Solomon actually took place in 1991. The military and political mindset of the Israeli leadership at the time was that if these Ethiopians were Jews, then they need to be brought home. There was a lot of planning and preparation that went on before Operation Solomon. As Angus said, “How did these people know to be at the air strip, bags packed, and ready to go home to Israel?”. He then said something that I will never forget.
He said, “Can you get 14,000 people at the airport … bags packed and ready to go home to Israel?”. He then said, “That is your job”.
Just think about it … 35 flights … 14,325 Ethiopians … all in a 36 hour period. So that is what some of us have been doing for that past 20 years or so … we have been spreading the word that we are Israelites and Israel is our home. I never make a trip to Israel without thanking the Wootens. Now, as I have seven children who have all been to Israel at least twice … some more than that … I thank the Wootens that there is a flame that has been kindled in them that will never die. The Wootens have not failed in their calling. That would almost be like saying Abraham, (or any of our forefathers), failed in his (their) calling because he was not alive when the Messiah walked the earth. The Wootens have effected generations for the re-gathering that is now taking place. May YHWH bless them abundantly. Shalom to your hearts and homes, Tom
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It will be a good day when Messiah returns to restore unity in the house and return us to the land. In the mean time, first let’s find out what it means to get our robes clean and then get to doing so.
I like to pick up on our previous discussion with what I believe will be some Great News to you all. We were all excited about the Jerusalem Post advert which KOL HATOR had initiated. We then mentioned our planned further projects, to make Judah aware of the fact that “Yoseph is Alive” by way of further full Page adverts in the Israeli Hebrew news media.
Well, we have since met up with Kellen Davison from Canada who also carries the Reconciliation upon his heart. He is a great and efficient activist. I met him in Jerusalem during Succot where he had arranged an international Conference ref. http://www.reconciliationwithisrael.com/. The copy of that same J.Post advert which I handed him, switched him onto even more intensive reconciliation Drive – and so in joint participation The Commonwealth of Yisrael project was born. It was Kellen’s insight into the need for Yoseph to identify himself first (which requires unity and reconciliation amongst disparate Ephraimites world wide) which inspired us to to replan our immediate future strategy: to promote Unity amongst Ephraim first. To awaken Judah to the fact that Yoseph is Alive, requires proof of an identifiable Yoseph Body – and this does NOT exist as a unified entity. What proof will we give Judah that Yoseph is Alive? So, we decided on creating a List first, like a census, of all Ephraimites based on very broad qualifying parameters, viz.
– Love the God of Israel.
– Love Israel and the Jewish people and feel led to bless Israel.
– Have started restoring Torah principles like Shabbat and Feast Days.
– Have come to love the Land of Israel, and/or has visited Israel and has a constant yearning after the Land of Israel.
– Defend the right of Jews to live in the Land of Israel and oppose anti-Israel propaganda and lies.
This list will then be used to influence the Rabbonim of Israel and the government that Yoseph is Alive. We need thousands – in fact millions. They are there. How to reach and inspire them is the problem – and that is where we need YOUR help. Firstly, to register yourselves, secondly to promote it as wide as possible. The registration fee of $20 will be used to finance international promotion drives and advertising. FREE registration is available on request.
To advertise and promote this registry, we have created a video which tells the entire restoration message in just 4 minutes. You can see it on the Main Pg. of the Web Site which we have created for this Project:
http://www.commonwealthofyisrael.com Click on the Start button just below the blue Main Banner headings.
Thanks for your c-operation
Thank you for stopping by.
I have been by the Comonwealth of Yisrael website in the last two weeks or so. Very interesting watching the numerous dsevelopments across the planet.
As you see from multiple posts over here, we, too, are diligently working toward gathering Ephraim so that we can get our house in order and then hopefully speak with a unified voice. Be patient with us and let this develop at the pace Adonai sets… Things are happening quickly, but we do not want to ‘jump the gun’ and move too quickly.
Shalom and blessings,