Reading this portion, Genesis 6:9-11:32, reminded me of a question I have not found a good answer to….yet. Maybe some of you have thoughts you are willing to share.
The Noach portion has clear lessons for those living in the last days, and I think some explicit details are meant to be unlocked and understood. So, the recurring question: What is the significance of the VERY specific dates in the text regarding the day it began and the day it ended? Lengths of phases, I.e. rain for 40 days, dry for 40, etc are important, but the specificity of dates is a bold highlight in the text. What is the relevance?
20 thoughts on “Open question, re: Noach”
Genesis 7:11 days the rain began on the 17th day of the second month. Since YHVH flipped the calendar 6 months at the First Exodus (Exodus 12:1), then it was actually the 17th day of the 8th month that the rain started. One of the comments from our Sukkot discussions was that that day corresponds to Halloween and All Souls Day. Since the entire population of the earth does in that day, the world has remembered that same day ever since by honoring the dead.
Oh my gosh!! What a FOOLISH, IGNORANT idea you posted! It couldn’t be FURTHER from the truth! Halloween is a DEMONIC celebration and is EVIL in every way!
Dorrie, did I say something wrong? Read my comment again and let me know if there’s anything in there that endorses Halloween.
Dear Dorrie … Please calm down a bit! Even if you disagree with my brother, does it help our dialog to call his insights “FOOLISH” and “IGNORANT”? And btw, if we wanted to be consistent and pick each others words apart, many would accuse you of being guilty of breaking the third commandment by saying “Oh my gosh”. I am not one of those, but please try to be a bit more respectful … read over the post again … try to see the best, instead of blasting away at that Barking Fox!
Makes total sense when you think about the death and judgment and all of the dark forces would want to commemorate, if not grieve the day of that judgment. I like the idea!
There are many people who are much smarter than I am. I am not always the quickest when it comes to calendar issues. With that being said, I do not see any way that a date on the Gregorian calendar can consistently correspond to a date on YHWH’s calendar. For example, eight years ago, we had a huge celebration in Nashville for 7-7-07. So many people were making a big deal about it. I just did not get it. I did not see anything earth shattering happen on that day. Besides, the calendar date was not 777 … it was actually 07-07-2007. I’m not sure if that changes things in gematria … I would think so. All that to say, even if Halloween or All Souls Day corresponds to a particular Hebrew day one year, I don’t understand how it would correspond to that day on any consistent basis. Maybe someone can help me out. Shalom
Tommy, you’re right to point out the problem of connecting any date of ancient significance with the Gregorian calendar. The festival to which I was referring predates the Gregorian calendar by centuries. It might have been more clear if I had used the Celtic name “Samhain”. That festival of the dead falls between the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice, which roughly corresponds to the 17th day of the 8th month (or 2nd month in Noah’s day). I’m not sure about the pre-Celtic origins of Samhain, but if it goes all the way back to Nimrod’s Babylon then maybe there is something to this. It might even be connected to the reason Jeroboam I chose to create a festival in the 8th month to keep our ancestors from going to Jerusalem for Sukkot. That’s just speculation, of course.
By the way, I was at LP Field for the 7-7-07 solemn assembly. It was l-o-n-g, hot day! Much good did come from it in the effort at repentance and intercession for the nation, but the date had no connection to YHVH’s calendar. The purpose was to mark 40 years since the “Summer of Love” in 1967 which was a threshold we crossed in our national moral degeneration. Perhaps it would have been more effective if the event had been connected with the Days of Awe, but at the time the awareness of YHVH’s calendar was not as great in Christian circles as it is today. That’s just another indicator of how great a work the Ruach has been doing in such a short time.
I don’t understand about the calendar being flipped at the first exodus. Please explain. Thank you.
Creation happened at what we now know as the 7th month (Tishrei). At least that’s what Hebrew tradition tells us. Then came the First Exodus, and this happened:
Now the LORD said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, “This month shall be the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year to you.” (Exodus 12:1-2 NASB)
What this means is that the Lord told Moses to start counting the first of the year in the spring, at the month of Aviv (also called Nisan), rather than in the fall at the month of Tishrei. That’s why to this day Passover happens in the 1st month, but the “Jewish New Year” (Rosh Hashanah or “Head of the Year) is in the 7th month.
Cannot comment to you barking fox. I think tradition has it wrong in this case, as in tishri it was on the mountain…like another ark..(of covenant). Far too many pictures of the flood and punishment, that was redeemed there point to the second month..and Pessach is the only feast we celebrate also in the second month.
Thank you for the reply below, Barking Fox. For some reason, there is no ‘Reply’ option below your explanation to my question about ‘the calendar being flipped’…. so I am replying to your explanation here.
I understand where you are coming from when speaking of the ‘calendar flip’, but I respectfully disagree with that reasoning. I know that it is Jewish tradition that teaches ‘the flip’, but I don’t see that ‘flip’ supported in Scripture. YHWH said it is the 2nd month when the rain started. Since He’s the same yesterday, today, and forever, I believe that Aviv (or Abib) was always the 1st month on His calendar. I could be wrong, but where in Scripture does it say that the 7th month is the 1st month? 7/1, according to YHWH, is Yom Teruah. Some say 7/1 is Rosh Hashanah (or ‘head of the year’), but YHWH says the head of the year is 1/1 (Exodus 12:1,2). If Yom Teruah was the head of the year, then YHWH would have said that Yom Kippur would be 1/10 and not 7/10, and Sukkot would be 1/15 to 1/22 and not 7/15 to 7/22. Here is a great article that I believe explains how Yom Teruah became Rosh Hashanah: http://www.nehemiaswall.com/yom-teruah-day-shouting-became-rosh-hashanah
I am not against traditions, for there are some really good and meaningful ones out there. Traditions are fine unless they add to or take away from His Word:
oops! My reply is in the right place (beneath your reply). Disregard the first paragraph in my ‘reply’ above. lol
What sticks out to me is the punishment narrative similarity between Noah’s story and Leviticus 26 in its curses for not following the Sabbatical and Jubilee years.
His birth creates a reference to rest for his acquiring the name Noah.
The flood happens in his 600th year and he goes out of the ark in the 601st year showing the Jubilee to be a 50 year multiple. Not 49!
I also see a connection to the Numbers 9 option of a second month Passover. The calamity came on the 17th day of the second month, just like Pharaohs army was washed away in the middle of the third week of the first month.
Like you I think there is more here we need to find….
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Never thought of the jubilee angle. The second Passover is fascinating, too. Good thought.
Hezekiah’s Passover was also a second month Passover and shortly thereafter the northern tribes who were invited, but spurned the opportunity, soon ceased to exist. Washed a way you might say…
Lesson; Do not pass up an opportunity to return to the covenant. A major point of our Seder every year !
my take on it that it is a Passover Story. The first month has always been the first month to God.. and it is the only feast where a feast of Elohim can be also in the second month.. so it all happened on Passover…. and on Sukkot he landed on the mountain (an ark on a mountain.. like the ark on Mt. Zion in the 7th month at the inauguration of the first temple) and on Passover the next year the earth was dry… there are at least 12 or more Pessach stories.. and this is one of them.
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Good morning Pete Are you familiar with this site? http://www.betemunah.org/feasts.html
Lists each day of Jewish calendar and events that transpired on those dates. I have found it very helpful in looking at dates and the dramatic events that play out on same date over so many years , thinking you might find it interesting too
Sent from my iPhone
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Thanks. Sounds like a good resource!
I dint think it flipped at all. For Yah it always has been the first month..and he was simply reminding his people of this fact as they’d forgotten it in exile. The Noach story has at the beginning all the exodus salvation motives so it’s a second month Pessach. The pitch kaphara atonement inside and outside on the ark. God having compassion and wanting to preserve menkind because he created them, Noach saving menkind by being obedient and he family getting an exodus experience..
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Good discussion generated here. Have had some here for Shabbat, as well…. Have make a chart again and relook at everything.